Archive for Read For Truth Inspired thoughts for wise minds

       Read For Truth Forum Index -> Grant Hoerman

deny your self

Luk 9:23 And he said to [them] all, If any [man] will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.  

Wow, you don't see too many people this day and age that want to dig this scripture up.  You don't see churches talking about this, you don't see christians erasing there significance  to nothing, yet this is the center point of what being a christian is.  It is the realization that we all fall short of the glory of God. It's the understanding that not only do we need a saviour, but a Lord of our life to live for us by the impowerment of His Holy Spirit. It's knowing that i am nothing but dust that will return to the ground. It's a humbling beyond personality. It's a truth that tramples intellect. It's knowing the only truth is from an Eternal God, that He is it, and everything else is a puff of smoke. It's relying on your Creator for everything. You have no identy, unless you recieve the gift of Jesus Christ's identity from our loving Father in Heaven. My prayer for all of humanity, including myself, is that we will deny ourselves, and take part then in God's will that shall be done on Earth and Heaven. God be with all.

Well said my friend.  That is an excellent verse of truth among the many in the Bible.  The most difficult part of addressing the truth in these passages, is actually doing it.  We can make excuses such as, "Well, we all fall short, so I am no different from anyone else when I choose to deny God and follow my own path."  The path of redemption is not a cakewalk.  It's not a simple bus ride to jump on and sit powerless while you cruise down the highway.  This is a walking journey, where we put one foot in front of the other, in the elements, watching others pass us by in their fancy car--and not wanting to be them.  There is no fast-track to redemption.  It requires dying daily to ourselves and taking up the cross as mentioned above in your dialogue.  

Grant--Supreme insight on an important passage.  We need more of those on here.  Great work.

What is the relationship between "dying of self", humility and faith?

The relationship is the Trinity.  Jesus Christ denied himself (flesh and blood) when he died for our sins on the cross. The Seed of Humility is the dying of self outcome-ingredient in how the Holy Spirit communicates to our Father in Heaven. This produces the Eternal Fruit of Faith that rests securely in our Father's Grace for Mankind. This is the only way Mankind can be connected to the Divine.

I agree with the statements, but am curious for further explanation of the Holy Spirit and God and the need to communicate if they are the same being.  If God is omniscient--having infinite awareness, understanding, and insight--is there a need for God to communicate with himself in the Spirit form?  

I may be misinterpreting the passage, but I got confused.  

My take on the relationship of "dying of self", humility, and faith is that it's very difficult to achieve salvation and a personal relationship with God if any are missing from the others.  Humility without faith or "dying of self" is feeble, cowardly.  Faith without humility or "dying of self" is like putting one foot on an escalator and leaving the other on the ground, going nowhere.  "Dying of self" without humility or faith is unfocused martyrdom and usually seeks a reward for its efforts.  

The three (dying of self, humility, and faith) are interconnected pieces needed to prove acceptance of the free salvation offered by God through Jesus' death and resurrection.  Being these three things at the same time is a difficult task, and we usually fall short here.  In spite of the difficulty we have in maintaining the three qualities, God still loves us and ready for us when we're ready for Him.
Russell Hoerman

Enjoyed the dialog and appreciate the sharing.  I'm not ready for a comment but wanted to let you know I'm on and trying to gain some familiarity with the format.

In regard to the question "is there a need for God to communicate with himself in the Spirit form?", I know Jesus prayed while in human form. I do not know, however, about other eternal communication. Certainly, there is relational interaction within the Holy Trinity.
Is it possible that God the Father is the seat of omniscience, the Holy Spirit omnipresence and Jesus Christ omnipotence? Understand that I am not identifying these eternal attributes as being independently exclusive.  Rather, each eternal attribute is made possible because of the relationship with the other two.  A relationship, if you will,  that seems to follow a masculine/feminine path culminating in the bearing of eternal fruit (Jesus Christ).

Well said, Rick.  I believe that Jesus prayed to show others how to pray.  You know how when you're a kid, you'll mirror the prayers of your father?  I bet that Jesus' spoken prayer methods were passed down through time with his disciples and their followers and so on.  I can't imagine what it would have been like to be a disciple that got to hear Jesus pray or bless the last supper, etc.  

If God, the Holy Spirit, and Jesus are a combination of omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent and God always knows what you're thinking at all times, why is there any need to pray?  He already knows what's on your mind, why then speak it out loud?  If the Holy Spirit is always around and Jesus lives in our souls, why is there a need to communicate through prayer?  

Disclaimer: I'm not advocating ceased communication with the Almighty, I just bring up a point that I'm curious about.
ian letterman

once again i am jumping in rather late but since i am just getting back into the site today i want to make the most the this time between feedings---daddy duty--ha ha. Anyhow i want to weigh in on your curiosity steve and point out that you have answered your own question in previous replys and post perhaps unbeknowns to you. Part of "dying to self" is submission--hence one reason for prayer--aknowledgemnt of God's majesty and Holiness--we as followers pay homage to our creator. Omniscience aside our relationship to God is likened unto relationships with one another ---there must be dialogue so the relationship can be cultivated. God speaks to us through His Word and we speak to Him through prayer. Thirdly, prayer is an exercise or measure. by this I mean that it is God's will that our own will be in accordance with His. Self examination through reflection on our own thoughts words and deeds prior to entering into a time of prayer is the exercise and how we pray i.e what we thank Him  and ask Him for is the measure. I will often reflect on what I have prayed about and for to assess my own motivations. Lastly, Jesus the very son of God prayed  so that He might carry out the Fathers will perfectly --if he was perfect and still engaged in this practice how much more so should we humble ourselves to our Heavenly Father in supplication and thanksgiving.
P.S. I tend to practice prayer in two ways---informally by speaking to God throughout the day as if we are on a walk together and again in a more formal fashion morning and evening.

Well said, Ian.  I agree with you 100%.  
It's good to know that you also informally speak to God throughout the day.  I tend to give thanks on a frequent basis to God, as a reminder that He is always near and His will should be my focus.  

Katy and I pray before dinner together every night.  I'd have to say that I practice praying out loud so that one day I'll be good at praying out loud for my kids.  That's still a ways away and I still need plenty of practice.  

However, it's responses like yours above that make these conversations important, and recharge me on my spiritual journey.  I pray for God's will in my life every day.  I pray that He will help me live in a way that is pleasing to Him.  

However, a lot of times I get distracted....easily taken off course by simple things--work drama, current events, politics.    

I appreciate your candid response on prayer, Ian.  It was a good reminder to stay focused and to spend time in prayer daily.

       Read For Truth Forum Index -> Grant Hoerman
Page 1 of 1
Create your own free forum | Buy a domain to use with your forum
If you look for truth, you may find comfort in the end; if you look for comfort you will not get either comfort or truth only soft soap and wishful thinking to begin, and in the end, despair. --C. S. Lewis